Good question.  Though not a civil engineering manager, I have worked at the Director level in the past for an executive search firm where I managed a group of recruiters, and I reported to the owners of the firm.  I am a big fan "telling it like it is" and being honest.  So, as a supervisor, if someone I was in charge of had particular issues I would first and foremost listen to all they had to say, and discount any untruths.  After discounting the untruths, I would address the other issues head on by recognizing them as truthful and relevant.  I would let them know that I agree with them and then I would try actively try to solve the problem - as a key player in the organization I knew that my opinions were valued, and my subordinates realized it, so they would feel better knowing that I was going to bat for them and hopefully be able to resolve the issues.  Sometimes, and maybe in your case, the top managers who are not seeing the big picture very well may be incompetent or selfish, BUT, they also may just not know.  This happens quite often I believe as people NEED TO COMMUNICATE.  The top managers need to hear from the folks in the trenches, and if what they hear is a re-occurring theme then they need to take action.  Sometimes the staff level employees and middle managers are not satisfied with certain things going on, but they do not communicate this.  They let it sit and stew until they can no longer take it and the anxiety and tension spreads like wildfire completely knocking the legs out of employee morale. 

To answer your last question, if you don't believe yourself the direction that the company is going and you have tried to express this to upper management but no action has been taken, then you need to let your subordinates know that you realize where they are coming from and that you are trying to resolve the issues with upper management and just tell them to hold tight until the situation is addressed.  If you have tried time and time again to communicate, in a professional way, your opinion to upper management yet they have not responded, time and time again, then I have no problem expressing your frustration to your subordinate.  Maybe you can team up, rally the troops and begin to take actions as a group that will really make a difference.  Or maybe you tell them that the sink is shipping and suggest they get out while they can.

Hey SMPS...howdy.  A couple things in regards to your comments on my comments:

A.  When I said "rally the troops," I was not referring to having everyone jump ship, I meant let's rally together in an effort to make some positive changes in the work place.  Recognize what we believe to be wrong and begin to make subtle changes ourselves that may improve the situation to make it a better, more positive work environment.  Hopefully then, not only will this trickle down to those lower in the chain of command, but maybe, just maybe, it will defy the laws of gravity and trickle up in the same manner that issues were griped up.

B.  Now, about "griping up," you said that if the managment team disagrees with your griping then "it is time for you to get out."  This may be true, but maybe not because management disagrees, but maybe because you are a pre-madonna, and we all know who these people are.  They are never satisfied, they know the right way to do everything and know all the avenues to success...even though they may not have ever had the actual experience.  Maybe the seasoned management team has learned from past mistakes and are implementing philosophies and standards that they know actually work. 

C.  Finally, if things are really that bad, I have no problem spelling out to my subordinates in a vague way that things are not so hot at the top and that I would understand if they wanted to explore their options.  No need to get into the details that I may be aware of, but if it is an employee that I trust and that I respect as a person then I always advise that they do what is best for themselves and their family, when push comes to shove.

I come from the perspective of a mid-level engineer. I am not management. Nor do I have many subordinates.

Without specific details, my position is that this situation is all about responsibility, authority, and accountability. If upper management is going to take full responsibility for the outcome of the questionable actions/policies, then it is more or less your job to provide the resources they hired you to provide. However, if you will ultimately be held accountable for the results, then it is your responsibility. You need to explain that you have a better way to meet their goals and you need the authority and trust necessary to do it.  And if what is being requested is illegal, immoral, or unsafe, well then the answer is obviously abject refusal.

It may just be semantics but, with respect to "gripes", they have no place in a professional environment. If someone has a complaint, they need to keep it to their self.  No one else wants to hear it and, more importantly, it doesn't help. However, if they have an identifiable problem AND can propose a solution, then by all means speak up to anyone who will listen.

As for staying positive with subordinates, that might be nice but it is unnecessary. Just stay professional. Simply explain that you understand their position but that management sees it differently and that you each have a job to do.

And if the problem is chronic or systemic, just leave. It's just a job. Find another one and leave. If you're unhappy and your employer doesn't value or trust your abilities, would anyone really be better served by sticking around?

Hey Bob, excellent stuff...awfully intricate for this mind here, but I guess that's why you have the MBA and I made the choice long ago to never go back to school (and no, NOT the school of Hard Knocks) after graduating with my four year degree.  All those numbers aside, I could not agree with you more that one should be a company man through and through.  A company man while actively employed, through the resignation process, through the front door on your way out.  No reason to EVER bash a previous employer, it weighs on the mind and soul and does no good.  Move on, Move up, and always be a "company man." 

Holla Back if you like 

Wow, Bob G ... something i don't see in any construction management text book!

I can't find "Transforming the Engineer into a Manager: Avoiding the Peter Principle." anywhere here,  how is it that the 3rd most talkative and competent engineer make the best manager?

Thinking about it, i'd have to say the theory (Peter Principle) is pretty much true in the situations I've come across. Maybe an exception would be the case where other people who have reached their level of incompetence, effectively block the people below from reaching their own level of incompetence. Have come across someone who can really talk the talk without being able to walk very well. They've risen one level above their level of incompetence again on the back of some great sweet talking (and off the hard work, sweat and tears of others below). Perhaps that's something to do with talkative and competent being linked together when the two are actually mutually exclusive.

When looking at this stuff, came upon the Dilbert Principle (yes, i know its a piece of satire ) where 'the most ineffective workers are systematically moved to management, the place where they can do the least damage'. It's a twist on the Peter Principle where people are recognised as being no good and moved out of work group by way of promotion. Works great if they then stay away, but with the new title comes a real power to annoy and upset workers, offend the client and recruit more people just like them!

Hello DB:

>Wow, Bob G ... something i don't see in any construction management text book!<

Thanks, I appreciate it. My clients say wow quite often.

>I can't find "Transforming the Engineer into a Manager: Avoiding the Peter Principle." anywhere where<

Mr. Neil E. Thornberry's article "Transforming the Engineer into a Manager: Avoiding the Peter Principle", was published Civil Engineering Practice, Fall 1989.

>how is it that the 3rd most talkative and competent engineer make the best manager?<

Managers need to be good listeners so when they are talking they are not listening.

>Thinking about it, i'd have to say the theory (Peter Principle) is pretty much true in the situations I've come across.<

It is more pronounced in companies that have stopped growing.

>Maybe an exception would be the case where other people who have reached their level of incompetence, effectively block the people below from reaching their own level of incompetence.<

If they did, would they be incompetent managers?

>Have come across someone who can really talk the talk without being able to walk very well. They've risen one level above their level of incompetence again on the back of some great sweet talking (and off the hard work, sweat and tears of others below).<

Quite often incompetents get promoted in hopes they'll be more productive doing something else.

>Perhaps that's something to do with talkative and competent being linked together when the two are actually mutually exclusive.<

They are not mutually exclusive since a talkative manager can choose to listen more than he talks.

>...  came upon the Dilbert Principle ... where 'the most ineffective workers are systematically moved to management, the place where they can do the least damage'.<

Employees are seldom moved into management if they are ineffective but once in management they may well be in over their heads and become ineffective managers.

>It's a twist on the Peter Principle where people are recognised as being no good and moved out of work group by way of promotion.<

The Peter Principle says that good employees get rewarded one time too many for doing their jobs well.

>Works great if they then stay away, but with the new title comes a real power to annoy and upset workers, offend the client and recruit more people just like them!<

Incompetent managers are not incompetent on purpose and they seldom do things to offend other employees. They are just in the wrong jobs.